Weekend Contest: iPhone vs BlackBerry

40 Comments

wkndcntst.jpg

The early reports are in. The majority opinion is that no, the iPhone won’t pose a threat to the BlackBerry. But you need to wonder – with BlackBerry trying to slowly move into the consumer market, you can’t tell me that the iPhone won’t be shoving them around a little then.

So, this week we’re asking you your thoughts on the big battle. Do you see the iPhone being a threat to the BlackBerry? Sure, the iPhone hasn’t even been released nor reviewed yet, but we’re all about speculation, right? Winner of this week’s contest will win three ringtones or SFX that were just added to BPlay’s catalogue.

Last week we talked about the white Pearl and asked you folks to simply weigh in with your opinions. As much as we appreciate the hardwork and dilligence that went into some of the replies, we had to laugh and give Keith the three Magmic games with his “my wife wants only a white one… enough said” reply. Thanks for the chuckle, Keith. Have a good weekend.

  • L. M. Lloyd

    I just don’t see it. At the moment, all Apple has is a brand and an idea. The mobile phone market is a mature and competitive one, and (as Sony and Microsoft learned the hard way) it takes more than a brand and an idea to make it. I have yet to see any evidence that Apple has any expertise in how to make a phone. Just having a nice package isn’t going to be enough to convince most people to put up with poor reception, dropped calls, and short battery life, which are the most common problems with phones from first-time phone manufacturers.

    I know a lot of people think that the iPod brand is all Apple needs to be an instant success in any market, but there is so much more to the mobile phone market, that I really think that assumption borders on insulting.

    How can you even discuss how successful a phone is going to be without first knowing how long the battery will last, what kind of reception it will get, how good or bad the sound quality is, and even what networks it will support? For that matter, sure we know it will play nice with Macs, but will it sync with Outlook as well? If it doesn’t sync with Outlook, then I pretty much think that right there will rule it out as in any way competing with the BlackBerry.

    Bottom line, there is a die-hard Mac fanatic base that would buy Apple breakfast cereal if they made it, and would talk at length about how Apple had revolutionized the entire food industry with the inspired design of their easy to use breakfast cereal. But outside of that small contingent, the iPhone is going to have to stand on its actual merits, which I have yet to see any reason to automatically assume are going to be particularly impressive. Right now, you might as well be asking if an Ikea, MTV, Ford, or Pepsi phone is going to hurt the BlackBerry.

  • L. M. Lloyd

    I just don’t see it. At the moment, all Apple has is a brand and an idea. The mobile phone market is a mature and competitive one, and (as Sony and Microsoft learned the hard way) it takes more than a brand and an idea to make it. I have yet to see any evidence that Apple has any expertise in how to make a phone. Just having a nice package isn’t going to be enough to convince most people to put up with poor reception, dropped calls, and short battery life, which are the most common problems with phones from first-time phone manufacturers.

    I know a lot of people think that the iPod brand is all Apple needs to be an instant success in any market, but there is so much more to the mobile phone market, that I really think that assumption borders on insulting.

    How can you even discuss how successful a phone is going to be without first knowing how long the battery will last, what kind of reception it will get, how good or bad the sound quality is, and even what networks it will support? For that matter, sure we know it will play nice with Macs, but will it sync with Outlook as well? If it doesn’t sync with Outlook, then I pretty much think that right there will rule it out as in any way competing with the BlackBerry.

    Bottom line, there is a die-hard Mac fanatic base that would buy Apple breakfast cereal if they made it, and would talk at length about how Apple had revolutionized the entire food industry with the inspired design of their easy to use breakfast cereal. But outside of that small contingent, the iPhone is going to have to stand on its actual merits, which I have yet to see any reason to automatically assume are going to be particularly impressive. Right now, you might as well be asking if an Ikea, MTV, Ford, or Pepsi phone is going to hurt the BlackBerry.

  • http://www.wayne-sutton.com/blog wayne

    The iPhone will be better than any blackberry phone because of the following reasons.

    1. The iPhone will do more and will be easier to operate.
    2. The iPhone will have more multimedia features and they will be easy to sync and upload to the web.
    3. Video chat
    4. Video calls
    5. It will sync with iTunes
    6. It will be cooler
    7. The phone will look better than the pearl or 8800
    8. Apple makes great devices and the iphone will be another one.

    Wayne

  • http://www.wayne-sutton.com/blog wayne

    The iPhone will be better than any blackberry phone because of the following reasons.

    1. The iPhone will do more and will be easier to operate.
    2. The iPhone will have more multimedia features and they will be easy to sync and upload to the web.
    3. Video chat
    4. Video calls
    5. It will sync with iTunes
    6. It will be cooler
    7. The phone will look better than the pearl or 8800
    8. Apple makes great devices and the iphone will be another one.

    Wayne

  • http://www.wayne-sutton.com/blog wayne

    Oh I forgot, the iPhone will have a hard dive to transfer music and files, and includethose rumored two batteries.

  • http://www.wayne-sutton.com/blog wayne

    Oh I forgot, the iPhone will have a hard dive to transfer music and files, and includethose rumored two batteries.

  • L. M. Lloyd

    Well, the two batteries has to be one of the dumbest gimmicks I have ever heard. With mobile phones, the main thing limiting battery life is physical size.

    To physically separate the battery into two parts, when you could just use software to provision power with a priority to the communication functions or music features is just idiotic. I don’t know if Apple just lacks the skills for intelligent power management, or if they think the two batteries sound like a good marketing gimmick, or if it is just a half-baked internet rumor that no one has really though through, but having two batteries doesn’t magically cause the device to have more power in the same physical space.

    All you are doing by devoting a separate battery to the music player is chewing up valuable space that could be used for better purposes. With modern batteries, it is really pretty trivial to tell the device to disable a set of functions when the charge drops below a specified level.

  • L. M. Lloyd

    Well, the two batteries has to be one of the dumbest gimmicks I have ever heard. With mobile phones, the main thing limiting battery life is physical size.

    To physically separate the battery into two parts, when you could just use software to provision power with a priority to the communication functions or music features is just idiotic. I don’t know if Apple just lacks the skills for intelligent power management, or if they think the two batteries sound like a good marketing gimmick, or if it is just a half-baked internet rumor that no one has really though through, but having two batteries doesn’t magically cause the device to have more power in the same physical space.

    All you are doing by devoting a separate battery to the music player is chewing up valuable space that could be used for better purposes. With modern batteries, it is really pretty trivial to tell the device to disable a set of functions when the charge drops below a specified level.

  • L. M. Lloyd

    Well, the two batteries has to be one of the dumbest gimmicks I have ever heard. With mobile phones, the main thing limiting battery life is physical size.

    To physically separate the battery into two parts, when you could just use software to provision power with a priority to the communication functions or music features is just idiotic. I don’t know if Apple just lacks the skills for intelligent power management, or if they think the two batteries sound like a good marketing gimmick, or if it is just a half-baked internet rumor that no one has really though through, but having two batteries doesn’t magically cause the device to have more power in the same physical space.

    All you are doing by devoting a separate battery to the music player is chewing up valuable space that could be used for better purposes. With modern batteries, it is really pretty trivial to tell the device to disable a set of functions when the charge drops below a specified level.

  • Luke

    In order to be a “blackberry killer” the iphone would have to incorporate realtime email, bluetooth 2.0 headsets, a hard drive (or allow very large flash drives), an extremely easy interface for music & features, a mega-pixel camera,a suretype style or qwerty keyboard and it would basically have to reinvent the phone/mp3 player convergence paradigm. Bluetooth syncing with my laptop would be cool too. And the realtime email would have to be corporate supportable or at the very least it must support multiple pop3 accounts. I love my pearl. I can listen to music, watch videos and have camera that works very well and my IT department supports me when I need help. What’s the point in changing? Unless of course it is to get UMTS & broadband tethering capability.

  • Luke

    In order to be a “blackberry killer” the iphone would have to incorporate realtime email, bluetooth 2.0 headsets, a hard drive (or allow very large flash drives), an extremely easy interface for music & features, a mega-pixel camera,a suretype style or qwerty keyboard and it would basically have to reinvent the phone/mp3 player convergence paradigm. Bluetooth syncing with my laptop would be cool too. And the realtime email would have to be corporate supportable or at the very least it must support multiple pop3 accounts. I love my pearl. I can listen to music, watch videos and have camera that works very well and my IT department supports me when I need help. What’s the point in changing? Unless of course it is to get UMTS & broadband tethering capability.

  • http://www.wayne-sutton.com/blog wayne sutton

    so who won?

  • http://www.wayne-sutton.com/blog wayne sutton

    so who won?

  • http://www.AJK.ca/ A.J. Keilty

    The Blackberry Killer has arrived… The iPhone is beyond amazing. http://www.apple.com/iphone
    I’ve never seen such an intuitive interface and such a wide variety of applications. RIM is in trouble if this iPhone can integrate into corporate networks.

  • http://www.AJK.ca A.J. Keilty

    The Blackberry Killer has arrived… The iPhone is beyond amazing. http://www.apple.com/iphone
    I’ve never seen such an intuitive interface and such a wide variety of applications. RIM is in trouble if this iPhone can integrate into corporate networks.

  • B. Cellupica

    I don’t agree at all. the iPhone looks very cool but the one thing that sets blackberry apart from other devices is the real time email and the full querty keyboard (sorry to the pearl users – I’m a die-hard full querty guy). This phone appears to have a touch screen keyboard that pops up and disappears. I’ll bet I won’t be able to type as quickly as I can with the full keyboard berry – therefore no sale!

  • B. Cellupica

    I don’t agree at all. the iPhone looks very cool but the one thing that sets blackberry apart from other devices is the real time email and the full querty keyboard (sorry to the pearl users – I’m a die-hard full querty guy). This phone appears to have a touch screen keyboard that pops up and disappears. I’ll bet I won’t be able to type as quickly as I can with the full keyboard berry – therefore no sale!

  • Robert Groza

    Well, now I guess would be a good time and re-evaluate the Apple iphone vs. RIM Blackberry, after seeing Steve Job’s keynote presentation on Apple’s newest invention. I am sold on it, will get rid of my Blackberry ASAP for the new approach to communcation/music/video/photo in an all-in-one device, built with a REAL operating system; OSX !!! Apple Rules !!!

  • Robert Groza

    Well, now I guess would be a good time and re-evaluate the Apple iphone vs. RIM Blackberry, after seeing Steve Job’s keynote presentation on Apple’s newest invention. I am sold on it, will get rid of my Blackberry ASAP for the new approach to communcation/music/video/photo in an all-in-one device, built with a REAL operating system; OSX !!! Apple Rules !!!

  • Jay

    I thought BB was near real-time email. I mean the mail hit the mail server and is then either pulled or pushed to your BB.

    The iPhone will whoop the pearl on the consumer side. No external volume controls? The memory card behind the battery? Sorry, not for me. BB rules the corporate scene primarily because of the BES software and interoptibility with major corporate email players (Lotus, Exchange, Groupwise). Apple will have to prove they can do that as easily as BB to even put a dent into the already growing BB market.

  • Jay

    I thought BB was near real-time email. I mean the mail hit the mail server and is then either pulled or pushed to your BB.

    The iPhone will whoop the pearl on the consumer side. No external volume controls? The memory card behind the battery? Sorry, not for me. BB rules the corporate scene primarily because of the BES software and interoptibility with major corporate email players (Lotus, Exchange, Groupwise). Apple will have to prove they can do that as easily as BB to even put a dent into the already growing BB market.

  • Deeham

    I’m a blackberry user but now I will make the switch to iPhone. i can’t believe someone tried to compare the blackberrys keyboard to the iPhone’s. I have to laugh at you if thats your deciding point when you haven’t used it yet. The iPhone features alone blow the BB out the water. I’m buying it as soon as its available.

  • Deeham

    I’m a blackberry user but now I will make the switch to iPhone. i can’t believe someone tried to compare the blackberrys keyboard to the iPhone’s. I have to laugh at you if thats your deciding point when you haven’t used it yet. The iPhone features alone blow the BB out the water. I’m buying it as soon as its available.

  • Deeham

    I’m a blackberry user but now I will make the switch to iPhone. i can’t believe someone tried to compare the blackberrys keyboard to the iPhone’s. I have to laugh at you if thats your deciding point when you haven’t used it yet. The iPhone features alone blow the BB out the water. I’m buying it as soon as its available.

  • Deeham

    I’m a blackberry user but now I will make the switch to iPhone. i can’t believe someone tried to compare the blackberrys keyboard to the iPhone’s. I have to laugh at you if thats your deciding point when you haven’t used it yet. The iPhone features alone blow the BB out the water. I’m buying it as soon as its available.

  • Natalie

    I LOVE BB and think iPhone ROCKS. But I guess I’ll be keeping my BB. Reason #1 is I really don’t like Singular network, there is no way I’ll switch my service. BTW Singular charges $50 for unlimited data, when T-mobile charges only $20, as well as phone service Singular is not really price competitive. Reason #2, as great as iPhone idea of the touch screen is- it is going to be a hassle to type. I used to be a Palm user and it was painful to input information using touch-screen. You could see that during the demo he had to use only one hand to type a message and it was SO SLOW. Which brings me to BB addicts or corporate users, one of the reasons BB is so popular is the quick response. I would take care of all my email on the road. iPhone without push email and easier typing is not a BB match. POP3 is good for recreational users, but if you get more than 15 emails a day it’s going to slow you down drastically. I remember with Treo it would take me forever to download my emails. In addition with BB push email service I typed my answers on the subway (service or no service) and BB will take care of the rest. I know Treo didn’t do it and I didn’t see that issue addressed at the presentation. iPhone would most likely kill some other phones and get their customers, who don’t’ mind switching networks and be stuck with it, but BB will keep its market share for sure.

  • Natalie

    I LOVE BB and think iPhone ROCKS. But I guess I’ll be keeping my BB. Reason #1 is I really don’t like Singular network, there is no way I’ll switch my service. BTW Singular charges $50 for unlimited data, when T-mobile charges only $20, as well as phone service Singular is not really price competitive. Reason #2, as great as iPhone idea of the touch screen is- it is going to be a hassle to type. I used to be a Palm user and it was painful to input information using touch-screen. You could see that during the demo he had to use only one hand to type a message and it was SO SLOW. Which brings me to BB addicts or corporate users, one of the reasons BB is so popular is the quick response. I would take care of all my email on the road. iPhone without push email and easier typing is not a BB match. POP3 is good for recreational users, but if you get more than 15 emails a day it’s going to slow you down drastically. I remember with Treo it would take me forever to download my emails. In addition with BB push email service I typed my answers on the subway (service or no service) and BB will take care of the rest. I know Treo didn’t do it and I didn’t see that issue addressed at the presentation. iPhone would most likely kill some other phones and get their customers, who don’t’ mind switching networks and be stuck with it, but BB will keep its market share for sure.

  • Natalie

    To Deeham,
    I am really curious to see how a man with his big thumbs is going to be as effective at typing using iPhone as he is using a BB. I switched from BB 8700 to Purl and it slowed me down about 30%, because the buttons are smaller and close together. With BB 8700 I’d take care of all my emails and now I am skipping. In my opinion iphone is only good for reading emails and maybe very short messages like “ok” “see you there” “here is the pic” I doubt you’d be typing much with you get your iPhone.

  • Natalie

    To Deeham,
    I am really curious to see how a man with his big thumbs is going to be as effective at typing using iPhone as he is using a BB. I switched from BB 8700 to Purl and it slowed me down about 30%, because the buttons are smaller and close together. With BB 8700 I’d take care of all my emails and now I am skipping. In my opinion iphone is only good for reading emails and maybe very short messages like “ok” “see you there” “here is the pic” I doubt you’d be typing much with you get your iPhone.

  • Natalie

    To Deeham,
    I am really curious to see how a man with his big thumbs is going to be as effective at typing using iPhone as he is using a BB. I switched from BB 8700 to Purl and it slowed me down about 30%, because the buttons are smaller and close together. With BB 8700 I’d take care of all my emails and now I am skipping. In my opinion iphone is only good for reading emails and maybe very short messages like “ok” “see you there” “here is the pic” I doubt you’d be typing much with you get your iPhone.

  • Natalie

    To Deeham,
    I am really curious to see how a man with his big thumbs is going to be as effective at typing using iPhone as he is using a BB. I switched from BB 8700 to Purl and it slowed me down about 30%, because the buttons are smaller and close together. With BB 8700 I’d take care of all my emails and now I am skipping. In my opinion iphone is only good for reading emails and maybe very short messages like “ok” “see you there” “here is the pic” I doubt you’d be typing much with you get your iPhone.

  • Natalie

    To Deeham,
    I am really curious to see how a man with his big thumbs is going to be as effective at typing using iPhone as he is using a BB. I switched from BB 8700 to Purl and it slowed me down about 30%, because the buttons are smaller and close together. With BB 8700 I’d take care of all my emails and now I am skipping. In my opinion iphone is only good for reading emails and maybe very short messages like “ok” “see you there” “here is the pic” I doubt you’d be typing much with you get your iPhone.

  • Pierre

    Well, could Iphone could be a threat for BB? we really gone have to wait and see , there’s to much factors who could go either way. Competitions is always good anyway it will force the RIM group too work harder on there futur BB . It will be interesting to watch the next 2 years.

    New-Brunswick , Canada BB user

  • Pierre

    Well, could Iphone could be a threat for BB? we really gone have to wait and see , there’s to much factors who could go either way. Competitions is always good anyway it will force the RIM group too work harder on there futur BB . It will be interesting to watch the next 2 years.

    New-Brunswick , Canada BB user

  • Pierre

    Well, could Iphone could be a threat for BB? we really gone have to wait and see , there’s to much factors who could go either way. Competitions is always good anyway it will force the RIM group too work harder on there futur BB . It will be interesting to watch the next 2 years.

    New-Brunswick , Canada BB user

  • Pierre

    Well, could Iphone could be a threat for BB? we really gone have to wait and see , there’s to much factors who could go either way. Competitions is always good anyway it will force the RIM group too work harder on there futur BB . It will be interesting to watch the next 2 years.

    New-Brunswick , Canada BB user

  • Pierre

    Well, could Iphone could be a threat for BB? we really gone have to wait and see , there’s to much factors who could go either way. Competitions is always good anyway it will force the RIM group too work harder on there futur BB . It will be interesting to watch the next 2 years.

    New-Brunswick , Canada BB user

  • Pierre

    Well, could Iphone could be a threat for BB? we really gone have to wait and see , there’s to much factors who could go either way. Competitions is always good anyway it will force the RIM group too work harder on there futur BB . It will be interesting to watch the next 2 years.

    New-Brunswick , Canada BB user

  • Bmac

    I just don’t see it. At the moment, all Apple has is a brand and an idea.

    (And a decades long track record of making high quality products that work well and almost everyone seems to love)

    The mobile phone market is a mature and competitive one, and (as Sony and Microsoft learned the hard way) it takes more than a brand and an idea to make it.

    (see above, they obviously have more than just a “brand”)

    I have yet to see any evidence that Apple has any expertise in how to make a phone.

    (so what? they make computers. do you think they are just going to toss together some spare parts and slap Apple on the side)

    Just having a nice package isn’t going to be enough to convince most people to put up with poor reception, dropped calls, and short battery life, which are the most common problems with phones from first-time phone manufacturers.

    I know a lot of people think that the iPod brand is all Apple needs to be an instant success in any market.

    (let’s just ignore the pre-ipod decades of Apple quality?)

    , but there is so much more to the mobile phone market, that I really think that assumption borders on insulting

    (this is just dumb. I myself am insulted that this is passed off as intelligent writing. Even if I agreed with everything else this person said this line would still make me nauseous. You’re saying that the people assuming Apple’s iphone will be good are insulting someone? Who? Who in this world is insulted by people believing that Apple can make a good product. Nokia? Motorola? Consumers? Do you honestly think that anyone is insulted? Are you? To me this argument does not make sense)

    How can you even discuss how successful a phone is going to be without first knowing how long the battery will last, what kind of reception it will get, how good or bad the sound quality is, and even what networks it will support?

    (your right, Apple is going to launch one phone, one model, to massive fanfare, but in the end it will be a total failure cause on the inside, other than all the incredible features like gigs of memory, a camera, wireless etc etc etc there will only be a little tiny watch battery running the thing, it will get no reception, the sound will be horrible (either referring to the MP3 player which is basically an ipod ie great sound quality )- or he means the phone which then means he is just repeating his statement about reception)

    For that matter, sure we know it will play nice with Macs, but will it sync with Outlook as well? If it doesn’t sync with Outlook, then I pretty much think that right there will rule it out as in any way competing with the BlackBerry

    (the only good point, and it is a good one, in this whole mess. Unfortunatly it ignores the fact that much like the rest of the Apple market, they rarely design or market anything to the “business” sector. Hey man, ever see those PC vs Mac ads on TV? Are they using those to corner the spreadsheet and database market?)

    Bottom line, there is a die-hard Mac fanatic base that would buy Apple breakfast cereal if they made it, and would talk at length about how Apple had revolutionized the entire food industry with the inspired design of their easy to use breakfast cereal.

    (Again lets ignore the millions of ipods, which did revolutionize not only mp3 players but in many ways the music business (which is huge) and industrial design of consumer products (again a pretty big deal) – >95% of which were sold to people without macs in their homes)

    But outside of that small contingent –(ie: millions of ipod owners you mean?)– the iPhone is going to have to stand on its actual merits, which I have yet to see any reason to automatically assume are going to be particularly impressive.

    (except for all the features reportedly going to be included on the phone, right?)

    Right now, you might as well be asking if an Ikea, MTV, Ford, or Pepsi phone is going to hurt the BlackBerry?

    (since when have any of these brands put out a computer? This guy needs a remedial logic class or a trip to a junior high school debating competition).

    Wow, I got a little heated over this. I should say that I currently own lots of expensive computer and electronic devices, none of which are made by Apple.

  • Bmac

    I just don’t see it. At the moment, all Apple has is a brand and an idea.

    (And a decades long track record of making high quality products that work well and almost everyone seems to love)

    The mobile phone market is a mature and competitive one, and (as Sony and Microsoft learned the hard way) it takes more than a brand and an idea to make it.

    (see above, they obviously have more than just a “brand”)

    I have yet to see any evidence that Apple has any expertise in how to make a phone.

    (so what? they make computers. do you think they are just going to toss together some spare parts and slap Apple on the side)

    Just having a nice package isn’t going to be enough to convince most people to put up with poor reception, dropped calls, and short battery life, which are the most common problems with phones from first-time phone manufacturers.

    I know a lot of people think that the iPod brand is all Apple needs to be an instant success in any market.

    (let’s just ignore the pre-ipod decades of Apple quality?)

    , but there is so much more to the mobile phone market, that I really think that assumption borders on insulting

    (this is just dumb. I myself am insulted that this is passed off as intelligent writing. Even if I agreed with everything else this person said this line would still make me nauseous. You’re saying that the people assuming Apple’s iphone will be good are insulting someone? Who? Who in this world is insulted by people believing that Apple can make a good product. Nokia? Motorola? Consumers? Do you honestly think that anyone is insulted? Are you? To me this argument does not make sense)

    How can you even discuss how successful a phone is going to be without first knowing how long the battery will last, what kind of reception it will get, how good or bad the sound quality is, and even what networks it will support?

    (your right, Apple is going to launch one phone, one model, to massive fanfare, but in the end it will be a total failure cause on the inside, other than all the incredible features like gigs of memory, a camera, wireless etc etc etc there will only be a little tiny watch battery running the thing, it will get no reception, the sound will be horrible (either referring to the MP3 player which is basically an ipod ie great sound quality )- or he means the phone which then means he is just repeating his statement about reception)

    For that matter, sure we know it will play nice with Macs, but will it sync with Outlook as well? If it doesn’t sync with Outlook, then I pretty much think that right there will rule it out as in any way competing with the BlackBerry

    (the only good point, and it is a good one, in this whole mess. Unfortunatly it ignores the fact that much like the rest of the Apple market, they rarely design or market anything to the “business” sector. Hey man, ever see those PC vs Mac ads on TV? Are they using those to corner the spreadsheet and database market?)

    Bottom line, there is a die-hard Mac fanatic base that would buy Apple breakfast cereal if they made it, and would talk at length about how Apple had revolutionized the entire food industry with the inspired design of their easy to use breakfast cereal.

    (Again lets ignore the millions of ipods, which did revolutionize not only mp3 players but in many ways the music business (which is huge) and industrial design of consumer products (again a pretty big deal) – >95% of which were sold to people without macs in their homes)

    But outside of that small contingent –(ie: millions of ipod owners you mean?)– the iPhone is going to have to stand on its actual merits, which I have yet to see any reason to automatically assume are going to be particularly impressive.

    (except for all the features reportedly going to be included on the phone, right?)

    Right now, you might as well be asking if an Ikea, MTV, Ford, or Pepsi phone is going to hurt the BlackBerry?

    (since when have any of these brands put out a computer? This guy needs a remedial logic class or a trip to a junior high school debating competition).

    Wow, I got a little heated over this. I should say that I currently own lots of expensive computer and electronic devices, none of which are made by Apple.